220 thoughts on “KP confirms: Meghan will spend Christmas at Sandringham (Update)”

1. Well – nothing less than expected – unless the mother of the future Princess Harry was going to London for Christmas then Meghan would have spent at least some of the day alone. Of course no-one knows if she has an invite for all of the events or just some of them.

2. I am very excited! The fashion, we will see how Meghan interacts with the other BRF members and finally pics of her and Harry with William and the Duchess of Keen!

   I don’t expect there to be any weirdness with Meghan and the BRF family members-I don’t mean William and his wife here. I suspect that Meghan, being naturally warm and interested in others and personable, has been careful to form lasting ties with Harry’s family, unlike The Duchess of Keen! who seems not to care one whit about forming relationships with the BRF. I think that is partially due to her personality and her also thinking that she will be Queen and won’t have to bother with the BRF other than William and her kids. That is partly also down to William, who is disdainful of his kin, while Harry seems close to them.

   I don’t expect Meghan to act buddy buddy with the Duchess of Keen!-William’s wife does not seem buddy buddyish or approachable and I am sure she will be a stickler for protocol, walking as far ahead of Meghan as she can. And I can’t see William being buddy with Meghan either. I think her effervescence is lost on those two.

   But what I am worried about are the optics of this situation. A lot of people are not pleased that Meghan is spending Xmas with the BRF as a fiancee when the former Ms. Middleton had to wait until she was married to do so. People are asking why Meghan gets a pass, why is she special.

   There are loonies who feel Meghan forced the Queen to allow this, that Harry is asking for special privileges for Meghan and don’t get why she is being fast tracked into the royal family and why rules are being bent.

   There is one royal reporter who commented on Twitter that he felt Buckingham Palace was being sidelined-he says the Xmas announcement should have come from them and not the Kensington.

   And Lainey of LaineyGossip said something that I think is odd as well: Meghan is called just that in the offical announcement from Kensington. Not Ms. Markle, as she has been called in the past, just Meghan. Lainey wonders if that is because Meghan intends her royal brand to be strictly informal.

   What I do know is that many do not like protocol changing and especially not for Meghan. It has rubbed many the wrong way, including several royal reporters. I hope this doesn’t blow up in Meghan’s face and turn even more against her.

   1. @Leah —

      RE: “And Lainey of LaineyGossip said something that I think is odd as well: Meghan is called just that in the offical announcement from Kensington. Not Ms. Markle, as she has been called in the past, just Meghan. Lainey wonders if that is because Meghan intends her royal brand to be strictly informal.”

      I don’t know where MMR or Lainey got their quotes, but I read on HuffPost that the statement (and it sounds more like a verbal statement or verbal confirmation, but it was directly quoted) said “Ms. Markle” – so I wonder if something has been lost in translation with some reporting. I cannot imagine an official KP statement just called her “Meghan.” Here’s the other article https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/meghan-markle-royal-family-christmas_us_5a312526e4b07ff75aff2c87

      Regarding her getting along with others – I firmly expect she will (at least appear) to get along well with everyone in the family. How she personally feels, I expect we’ll never know! After all, she is 1) mature and not some giggling teen, 2) trying to make a good impression on her soon-to-be family members, 3) an actress, so should be able to hide real feelings if she needs to, 4) has already met several family members so it won’t be the first time she’s trying to chat people up, 5) I’m sure other people will also want to be welcoming to Meghan and make her feel comfortable and accepted, and 6) it seems like H&M and Eug and BF Jack have been on several double-dates, so I’m guessing she’s already close to Eug. (Haha, you can see I’ve really thought about this a lot 😉 )

      I’d really like to see her buddy up with Camilla and Sophie, as royal role-models. They both are always appropriately dressed, and engaged and prepared during their “work” outings. I feel like they would be great people to help Meghan find her feet on solo engagements. However, I almost think she’ll be fine even without shadowing someone first. The report about her attending the staff Christmas party sounds like – once again – she knocked it out of the park, and of course, she did amazingly well in Nottingham. And, I totally discount the sticklers saying she broke protocol by walking ahead of Harry. He clearly directs her to walk ahead of him several times, just as Will has sometimes done with Kate. At Christmas, I fully expect she will strictly follow protocol as she won’t want to be seen as an uncouth American who doesn’t respect the family into which she’s marrying in. Plus, it does seem like the family walks in protocol-ish order, so I can’t imagine Meghan will take it upon herself to barge ahead of Charles and Camilla (like Kate tried to do at the Jubilee where Will had to pull her back) or even W&K.

      1. +1000 @ Gudgeon.
         I seen pictures of this royal procession to or from church and the walk seems to have a hierarchical order of movement so IMO Meghan will be by Harry’s side and not anywhere she is not supposed to be. Harry, it appears, is a very touchy feely person himself, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he holds her hand or whatever, these two seem to just hold hands spontaneously with ought even knowing they do, so Im sure Harry will guide Meghan as to what she needs to do, where and when.

      2. I feel Meghan will genuinely get along with everyone. I doubt she will be the one who wants nothing to do with William’s wife. I think it will be the other way round.

         I have not forgotten about the Duchess of Keen! trying to walk before C&C at Jubilee. She definitely got ideas above her station. What she was thinking, I don’t know. Carole must have inflated her ego that or her princess lessons failed.

         Meghan would do well to partner with Sophie-as far as Camilla, I am not sure that the relationship that Harry has with her is a warm one.

         1. As much as I don’t care for Kate, I have to say that I don’t think she has “ideas above her station” (and as an American I can’t stand that phrase!) but I think that who curtsies to whom, who walks before/after whom, etc., just aren’t that important to her or she would have learned and remembered from very early on. Likewise for Meghan–I’m sure she’ll make sure to follow protocol, but I think she’s going to face greater criticism if she forgets. Who knows how Harry feels about it, but I do think that for William it’s important (at least toward him and Kate), and for Andrew it seems to be even more so. (Anyone see Tom Sykes recent article about Andrew and the article on him in The Sunday Times? I’m sure Andrew and perhaps the Queen even are boiling over that Times piece.)

            1. Andrew is a dolt. The less said about him the better. I fear he has forever tainted The Duke of York title.

               Oh, we know protocol of any kind is not important to The Duchess of Keen! unless it benefits her.

               And yes, if Meghan does not protocol to the letter, she will be ripped into more harshly than William’s wife will ever be, but that is what happens when you are a woman of color and Meghan knows that, so she will get it right.

               Plus I think she has more respect for the BRF and people in general than the Duchess of Keen!

            2. Everything that women fight for Leah, I think Meghan would be offended to hear you even bring that up. I am. What you seem to be saying is that if things don’t work out for Meghan or the press picks on her, it will never be because of anything SHE actually did but because of the color of her skin. I think she’s a beautiful smart woman and has been doing a smashing job since the engagement announcement. She’ll be fine, the press will hover like vultures no matter what, and you don’t need to give her a pass that I’m quite sure she’s not giving herself in the first place. C’mon man!

      3. Gudgeon: +1 from me as well

   2. @Leah, I saw a comment on DM, this person said that Kate WAS actually invited to spend 2010 Christmas with the RF but she decided “to spend her last christmas as a single woman with her family”. This person quoted the DM itself so it seems DM reported that an invite was extended to Kate but she declined but DM assumed that everybody has forgotten that they reported that it was Kate’s decision to not take the invite.
      Personally I’m not surprised at Meg spending Christmas with her future in laws, the BRF had to accommodate her because Harry is her family now and he always spends christmas with his family, so, not inviting Meg due to some tradition would be excluding their own from celebrating it with his own family due to some tradition.
      I also expect Kate to surprise a lot of people, she will be friendly with Meghan because of her relationship with prince Harry. Now, I really don’t know the dynamics between Kate and other BRF members but it has been continuously reported that Kate and Harry are very close, so Kate will be friendly with Meg. Also, a lot will depend on Meghan herself, if she wants nothing to do with Kate, (which I don’t expect; that is not in her nature from what we’ve gleaned from our online “relationship” with others), then Kate can’t force her to be friends. But from the little we know of Meghan, her and many BRF members will be friends. It has also been repotted that she and Eugenie are already very good friends so we all should relax, Meghan can hold her own, she’s gonna be just fine y’all.

      1. I think the former Ms. Middleton will be friendly to Meghan on a superficial level and that is it. I doubt we will see them buddy buddy at all. You couldn’t find two more opposite people. They really have nothing in common other than the BRF. Meghan is interested in people, food, global events, can make good speeches and is articulate. I think because Meghan has such a quick, nimble mind and is highly intelligent, she might have a harder time with The Duchess of Keen’s more turgid intellectual capabilities and the fact that William’s wife is interested in well..nothing.

         But I also think that being as adroit as she is, Meghan got the lay of the land very quickly where The Duchess of Keen! is concerned and will conduct herself accordingly. No one has ever accused Meghan of being unable to read a room.

         In fact, I think it is more important Meghan get on with William than his wife, but that seems a tricky proposition.

         I have never bought that the Duchess of Keen! and Harry were close. He used to call her Limpet according to many reports and when William got engaged, Harry said he was looking forward to getting to know his new sister-in-law.

         I have never seen anything beyond the superficial and Palace PR to make me think Harry and his sister-in-law are close. And now that Harry is married, he may pull away from William and his wife because he has his own family and destiny to focus on.

         1. I think Harry was polite to Kate during events because William is always ignoring her and she liked getting attention from him. The press turned that into Harry being great friends with her, but he is personable to everyone even strangers during engagements… well except for the more recent trio events where he seemed to separate himself from the other two.

            Harry would be asked things by the press about Will and Kate and never seemed to know what was going on. He’s generally friendly but I wouldn’t say he was close with them.

            1. +1 Nic919 – this is how I feel too.

               I think Harry, of course, loves his brother…because he’s his brother. However, I don’t think he and Will and, by extension, Kate are all that “close.” Partly, I think this is because William seemed/seems to want to spend all of his free time with the Middletons, being spoiled and coddled. And, partly because Harry seems to be close to Charles and Bea and Eug (i.e. Windsor family members) whereas William doesn’t seem as close to them. So, in their free time, I just don’t think they were spending all that much time together!

               I also think that as siblings get older (and now William has children – although I do question how much time Will actually spends with his family!!) lives, naturally, diverge a bit. William and Kate will want to spend time with their own family unit…and (soon) Harry will want to spend time building his family unit and being with his wife and children.

               I guess I also just really found it telling that when W&K’s engagement was announced, Harry’s response was that “he was looking forward to getting to know” Kate. After 7-8 years of dating her brother, Harry didn’t really know Kate! If they really were “close” I don’t think this would have been the case (IMO, of course).

   3. I’m with you in most of what you say, Leah. But I do expect William to be fond of Meghan. There were rumours around the time of William’s marriage that Charles would attend symphony events with Kate, something that I believe reveals how much Charles would like to be close with Kate and how much Kate may want the same. I sense strong tensions between William and his father (William has had a sense of entitlement and self-importance since early childhood, exhibiting no hesitation to be rude to guests and delighting in announcing to staff that once he was King, they would be fired. He was a spoilt brat from most accounts so much so that Her Majesty had to step in), so it may just be me, but I think that Kate’s distance from the rest of the family stems more from William than from Kate herself.

      That said, from Harry’s comments on his brother in the engagement interview (“William had been longing to meet her”) and generally, there seems to be a strong bond between brothers. I have to believe that William is truly happy for Harry and is delighted to welcome Meghan to the family. Kate will do as William does and so I expect courtesy and happiness from everyone in the family.

      1. I like your thoughts, Weatherby, especially about how Kate just follows Will’s lead or does what he wants. I see her a person with no real agency (or not very much) so she’ll never stand up to him to do what she wants (if she even knows what she wants). She’ll just go along with serving him, at the expense of knowing herself or growing herself.

         I would add too, that I think William will “like” Meghan as long as she serves a purpose for him. Along the lines of his rude and self-important personality, I think he’s one of those people who thinks someone is great…until they do something Will has an issue with or says no to Will. What that “no” could be, for Meghan, I don’t really know!

         I am kind of two minds about whether W&K will welcome the spotlight shining on H&M (so W&K can work less and disappear to the country or vacations without people noticing or criticizing them) – OR – will William (kind of like how Charles did) become resentful that he is not “top dog” in the getting of attention and adoration?? I could totally see William throwing a strop if Harry and Meghan become media darlings and get lots of praise for working harder and/or more often than William (and Kate…but mostly William). Or if there are tons of articles comparing the two wives…and Kate doesn’t fare as well as Meghan – whether it’s looks or parenting or work ethic, I almost don’t think the topic would matter – Will will just be upset if he/Kate are not viewed more favorably. And then, look out, tons more snarky, passive-aggressive comments from Will toward Harry!

         I could also see Will getting pissed if Meghan forms closer relationships with Camilla, Sophie, Zara, Bea, Eug, and even the queen than Kate has (which I think Meghan is likely to since the rumors are that she is already close to Eugenie). I mean, I think Kate totally could have had very close relationships with all of the other royal women, but instead of bonding with them she spent every free moment with her mother and sister. I don’t see Meghan doing this, partly because her mom is in America, but mostly because IMO Harry has closer relationships with Windsor family members than Will does, and so Meghan will be an extension of this.

         1. Good points, all. But given how much affection both brothers would appear to have for one another, I can see William being chummy with Meghan. A strong woman with a sense of self and direction has always seemed the sort of woman that Prince William was drawn to (see Isabella Calthorpe or Jessica Craig).

            His love for Harry and his fascination with strong women both lead me to believe that William and Meghan will share a warm in-law relationship. With Harry guiding her (it is said that most of the family adores Harry – Anne and HM included), Meghan is likely going to feel perfectly adapted to the royal family. This is the intriguing part: William never took the time nor the consideration to do that for Kate, and she’s been left to form these relationships on her own without his guidance. It’s little wonder she seems insecure at family affairs and wanders off on her own with George.

            To further complicate the issue, Prince William does not seem to care for the opinions of his wife, so if Kate begins to feel threatened, I don’t see William taking any initiative or even giving a rat’s fart about it. He has ignored her so often in public that I can only imagine what he is like in private. The eternal feminist in me is curious how Kate will respond to the love and affection she sees bestowed on Meghan from her adoring husband. If she isn’t resentful of William already, how will the exposure of the things her life is missing make her feel? It reminds me of that moment during the 2007 Diana memorial concert when Chelsy was given prime seating as a beloved partner next to Prince Harry whilst Kate was shoved one row up and a few aisles over. There are many things I don’t like about William, but the way that he can treat his wife (and previously, serious girlfriend) is something that I find truly offensive.

            And so at present, I am waiting with curious interest to see how these women engage one another. Partly because a strong confident woman is not someone that Kate seems to keep in her orbit for very long. But also because I think seeing Meghan get all the things that she needs out of her marriage, and seeing the warm reception Meghan is getting from the family might be something that Kate finds difficult to process.

            This is all pure speculation at this point, and I certainly do not profess to personally know any of these people. I am basing my assertions on behaviour exhibited in public. Only time will tell. I am so looking forward to the Christmas walk!!

      2. I agree. I think there is a certain amount of being a people pleaser in Kate’s personality- towards her mother, William. That would certainly extend to wanting to be seen in a good light and liked by her inlaws. However since William is #1 she will follow his lead in familial relationships.
         And I really don’t see Kate trying to plot ways to take precedence in walking or social situations. She’s made a few mistakes as will Meghan. I’m sure Sophie and Camilla have too, they’re just not followed as closely. It happens. They’re human.

3. I am disappointed that this is the only announcement we’ve had about Meghan in 14 days. I would have expected a formal engagement photo and possible undercover charity visit from her. That’s what I expected from her “I think in these beginning few months and now being boots on the ground in the U.K. I’m excited to just really get to know more about the different communities here, smaller organizations we’re working on the same causes that I’ve always been passionate about under this umbrella.”

   It may be unfair, but because Meghan was a career woman, I expect her to have a clear idea of what she wants to do as a royal.

   1. Have they even had time to take an engagement photo? It seemed Meghan flew to LA right after that first week they announced the engagement/went to Nottingham, so have Harry and Meghan even been on the same continent since then in order to take a photo together?

      1. I see Meghan is back in the UK now. Maybe now they will be able to take the engagement photos.

         1. I heard that the engagement photos were either taken the same day as the Nottingham visit or were scheduled that day. I am not disappointed that this is the first announcement we have had about Meghan. I think things are going fine, but I do expect to see her do engagments in January.

   2. Well, I just read that Prince Harry and Meghan, not Kate and William, hosted the Lord Chamberlain with HM.. The gathering at Windsor Castle apparently had a lot of influential people. The piece was written by Richard Kay who is a very well-informed royal reporter. I think she is already doing quite a few undercover meetings as she figures out what she wants to concentrate on. I do think it is odd that there is no engagement photo. I have a hunch she went home to LA as well to spend some time with her mom—as she won’t be joining her for Christmas. Maybe, now that she is back, they will finally shoot those photos.

   3. Here is the post for those interested: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5177145/Meghan-Markle-transforming-Royal-Family-RICHARD-KAY.html

      1. Thanks!

         1. I need to learn to stop reading the comments in the DM about Meghan. So many nasty comments in this day and age.

            It makes perfect sense to invite Meghan for Christmas. She is far from family and in a new country. I would be disappointed in HM if she left Meghan on her own for the holiday. HM was polite to invite her for the festivities.

            1. G — Yes, please don’t read those DM comments, for the sake of your own sanity 🙂 . They are a cesspool!!

               I go strictly for the pictures (because even the “reporting” is complete sh*t, full of spelling mistakes and laughable errors!). I stop before I even get to the comment area because I don’t want to get sucked into that negativity. I come to wonderful blogs like this for the commentary because even if someone here dislikes Meghan, they aren’t making racist or cruel or completely uninformed comments.

      2. The fact that Meghan and Harry hosted the Lord Chamberlain has me spinning. Have Wiliam and his wife ever done so? I just think Meghan and Harry seem to be more of a “team” and on the same page than the William and his wife.

         I mean, is it normal that Meghan and Harry would host the Lord Chamberlain? Was this at the request of the Queen? And what is a Lord Chamberlain?

         1. HM only has William host things with her sometimes or meet with ambassadors, and comments are all about how he should be king and not his awful terrible father… HM’s making William step up but I’m sure she can only force his hand so far. Whereas Harry always seems eager to please her and do whatever she asks of him and vice-versa.

         2. I’ve had to back off the DM because of the horrifying photos and videos they post. Beheadings, murders, deaths, suicides all posted with the warning about graphic content under the video/photo.

   4. Marna she’s moving to a new country; I think you’re overdoing it. When I was in the military when people moved to a new base they got about a month of leave to settle in.

   5. @Marna – In a sense though, if she is doing “undercover” charity work…then we might not know about it. So, it’s entirely possible she has already identified several charities that she’ll partner with and she’s already had meetings with them to introduce herself, meet with charity staff, and identify ways in which she wants to engage with the charity. We just may not know about all of this. I don’t think her charity list will be announced until after she’s married, which seems appropriate.

      WRT her visibility, she was supposedly in CA visiting her mother since the Nottingham event. I am continually amazed that the two of them were able to do so much international travel without being sighted or someone reporting they saw them on a flight (even if no pics). I mean they said they never went more than 2 weeks without seeing each other in person! Amazing!! So anyway, it seems like she’s flown from London to LA and back again without anyone seeing her so I’m sure she could also be doing some initial ground-work for future charities on the down-low.

      I also agree with Jessica that she only officially joined the firm 2 weeks ago (and not even really “officially” yet) so we shouldn’t expect her to be FT yet.

      1. Gudgeon, what does “WRT” mean?

         1. @Leah its With Regards To

            1. Thank you.

      2. Re.visibility of HM: private jets might account for lack of sightings.

   6. MASAMF re The Duchess of Keen! being invited to spend Xmas with the BRF when she was engaged, I heard that, but I heard that she also wasn’t invited. Hard to believe this was seven years ago, when were told she was going to be the best prepared royal bride ever.

      I am not so sure I take the DM as the best source on that, though.

      1. Oh okay thanks. This DM poster seemed unbiased to me so i figured it could of been true that she was invited but declined.

         1. It has been seven years, so it is hard to remember. I think you would have to do a DEEP dive to get at the truth of that. Herazeus might know definitively. But I think she wasn’t invited. I mean did she even go to the Xmas lunch that year that the Queen had?

            1. I remember that Clarence House stated that she was invited but Kate refused.

   7. Well, the BRF is a job with lots of protocols. Isn’t it possible that the reason she hasn’t been out and about is because she’s having a lot of “princess” lessons? They would also be busy with wedding planning…

      I’ll probably wait until after their marriage before I set any expectations…

   8. They may not have her security team in place.

4. “Wearing a burgundy lacy cocktail dress, demurely cut just below the knee, she moved easily though the crowd of well-wishers just as she had a fortnight earlier, accepting congratulations from the men and women who in a few months’ time will address her as ‘Your Royal Highness’.”

   NOOOOOO, Meghan, please!! Not you too!! STAHP with the lacy dresses!!

   1. Lol

      1. Not all lace dresses are awful. Also, apparently, Harry was very proud of Meghan at that event and everyone said she was beyond beautiful.

   2. @LizB – lolol! Yes, I completely agree. No lace dresses and no Erdem. Blech.

      I really, really hope she doesn’t adopt Kate’s “princess” wardrobe. I hate Kate’s aesthetic and style. Have you seen her head-to-toe navy blue outfit from today’s Grenfell memorial service? Coat is badly tailored with buttons pulling and pockets too high, and of course, she’s got a mini dress on underneath.

   3. Bwahahahahahaha, this is very funny. I need to see a picture of the “lacy” dress before I can freak out, LOL.

      1. The Duchess of Keen! looks like she just rolled out of bed in that get up and that hat she is wearing is pure Carmen SanDiego. I mean, that coat is wrinkled and ill-fitting and hangs oddly. Just a mess.

         1. i didn’t like her hat but i think she looks beautiful in the coat.

   4. I had a chuckle at the mention of Meg’s hemlines, “Demurely cut just below the knee.” As opposed to that other Princess whose skirts are, ahem, differently lengthened? No thigh flashing here 😉

      DM getting in some subtle digs.

5. Well there was just a church service and Meghan is in London but didn’t bother to show up. Harry is still the fifth wheel it seems.

   1. The church service was for ROYAL members at a govt event. MM is not yet a govt employee. Sandrigham is a family event not a govt event.

      1. +1 HeraZeus.

      2. +1000 Hera. I should have read your post before posting, you said it much better.

      3. Emily, we all know you hate Meghan, but on this, it would not be correct for her to show up at the service. So you are wrong for finding fault with her here.

         1. I don’t hate Meghan, I think she won’t work long term in Harry’s life. That’s an opinion. On the other hand, Leah. You truly hate and resent Kate for having the life that she does. You aren’t a UK citizen or tax payer but somehow feel so entitled to call her names like the Duchess of Keen in the most catty and petty way. Stop trying to live vicariously through Meghan, she cares nothing for you. Btw, I’m not a Kate fan either, just pointing out hypocrisy of some black women who are looking to Meghan for their own validation.

            1. It ‘s the Duchess of Keen! If you are going to mock my sobriquet for the former Ms. Middleton, get it right.

               Secondly I don’t have to be a UK tax payer or citizen to have an opinion of the BRF. It’s called Freedom of Speech. And more than half of those on the board are not UK citizens, so you may as well go for their jugular as well as mine.

               No one is trying to live through Meghan. I have been a fan of hers for quite a while. I am happy for and excited to see what she will bring to the BRF. She is a breath of fresh air. And I never said Meghan cared for me. I don’t expect her too. Why you think that is beyond me.

               I don’t need to look to Meghan as a black woman for my validation, thank you very much.

               And you don’t know Harry and you have no idea what will and will not work in his life. And if Meghan does not work out, it doesn’t concern you.

               I for one will give her a chance and I wish her and Harry the best.

               As far as the Duchess of Keen! I think she is lazy, doesn’t know the meaning of work, has brought nothing to the BRF and contributed nothing other than her children. Her job is so much more than that and yet she doesn’t care to do good or contribute.

               She is an awful patron and has no interest in anyone or anything other than her grasping kin. She has squandered an amazing education and other opportunities and a platform she can make a difference with.

               After 6 years, she still cannot do the basics of her job, which includes dressing correctly and making speeches. She prefers to be seen via the endless outfits she wears and not heard.

               All of this is unacceptable to me. Do I hate her no, but I am clearly no fan.

            2. Ah yes, continue the double standards of verbal abuse and call it free speech as you praise a complete stranger to the hills. You don’t know Meghan, Harry, or Kate for that matter as much as I and many on this board do but somehow your opinion matters more than everyone else’s. You make the assumption that Meghan will be great and do great things when their has been no indication. You surely behave as a catty female who only cheers for Meghan for your own validation and that is my opinion and free speech on that. I don’t come for your jugular, you just have poorly thought out opinions is all.

            3. “Just pointing out hypocrisy of some black women who are looking to Meghan for their own validation.”
               – 1000000000000
               But I’m glad to know that you look to Kate for your validation.

            4. And how do you know Harry, Kate and William? Have you met them personally, had many conversations with them, been in their homes, seen them on engagements? I didn’t think so. And no one on this board knows the BRF personally.

               You thinking my opinions aren’t well thought out is your conclusion. And before you call me catty, I would look in the mirror.

      4. How many people were in that church were not royal members? I didn’t realize that this was a requirement to get into the venue. She has yet to show that she really cares about Britain or its people. All she has ever mentioned is the commonwealth, I guess when she lords over us we don’t really exist unless it’s to fund her new life.

         1. She hasn’t officially been engaged for a month. How exactly is she going to show she cares for the UK and its’ citizens in a month. If you read what everyone said, that per protocol, Meghan should not have been there, then you will get that yes, being officially in the BRF was a necessity for her to attend.

            As an unofficial, official BRF member, there is lots Meghan cannot do yet. For God’s sake, give it time. I can’t believe you are dragging her when she hasn’t been offically engaged for a month. Are you serious?

            1. How has she shown she doesn’t care? She’s only been engaged for 2 weeks and has only been in the UK for a month at least

         2. There were few politicians allowed in the service much less royals and with the press going crazy over Meghan, they didn’t want the attention diverted from the real reason for the service, which was to commemorate the tragic death of several people. It’s not like she can crash a memorial service as she doesn’t have an official role yet in the BRF.

            1. Thank you, Nic.

         3. @Emily De Bonville,,
            British people are not funding Meghan’s life so this is a moot point to argue. Also please, quit telling us who should/shouldn’t care or comment about/on the BRF because of the taxes you pay. And, what exactly do you mean by “black women looking to Meghan for their validation”? Are you serious? How are we looking up to Meghan for our own validation? What a mean stinky comment to people you don’t even know!!

            1. Thank you MASAMF. Emily’s comments are baffling and increasingly are going off the rails. We all have a right to comment as we wish here. And the argument that only UK citizens can comment on the BRF is beyond me.

               And also Emily, if you are so upset over Grenfell, why don’t you go and volunteer and help them instead of raising a fuss over Meghan?

            2. Leah, tempting as it may be, Don’t Feed The Troll.

            3. Grace H, point taken.

         4. I think if she really wanted to go, she could have go.

   2. @Emily De Bonville,
      Meghan is NOT a member of the BRF yet, she won’t be till some time in May when she gets married to Prince Harry. What this means is that she ONLY goes to where she is invited, so because this service was for the BRF members, she was not invited therefore your “Meghan did not bother to show up” is unfair criticism.
      The “Harry is still a 5th wheel” comment is completely lost on me!! Not sure why Harry is being dissed here but whatever, have fun with whatever makes you happy…

      1. 5th wheel; unmarried person among 2 married couples.

         I agree Meghan is in the in-between stage right now. She’ll miss out on a lot of things until they are officially married.

         1. @Jessica, which 2 married couples are you referring to? The church service that @Emily de Ville was referring to seems to have been attended by more that 5 members of the BRF, both married and unmarried so I don’t get it!! Why would prince Harry be singled out as ” the 5th wheel”?

            1. 5th wheel among the senior royals. Prince Charles and Duchess of Cornwall and the Duke & Duchess of Cambridge.

            2. oh okay thanks. Point taken.

      2. The entire church was filled with people not part of the RF but somehow Meghan gets a pass. Hmm….

         1. Emily, you are just finding fault with Meghan for NO reason. The people not part of the BRF that were there were religious figures, the bereaved and surivors.

            Meghan was not there as she is not part of the BRF officially and as such, would not be appropriate for her to be there and it would be distracting.

            Why you can’t understand that this is protocol and Meghan did nothing wrong is beyond me. Numerous people have told you she was not there and for legitimate reasons, yet you persist in finding fault and not listening.

            It’s baffling. You just want to hate her and for no good reason. You haven’t even given her a chance. Why you hate her is beyond me.

            I at least gave the Duchess of Keen! two years and then I peaced out.

            1. I didn’t find fault but put out a point which would be used against Kate had this been her. Why does protocol matter now that they have dismissed all else for Meghan. Picking and choosing what rules to follow is what this couple does best. I’m not surprised in the least. Boots on ground certainly meant for parties and fancy events and not those that truly affect us Brits.

            2. Emily it wasn’t used against Kate before she was married, but then again you need to remember that Kate had hung on to Will for what 8 yrs before they married and lived in England the entire time. She should have been immersed in British culture, whereas Meghan is not. Right now I’m immersed more in British culture than Kate and I don’t even friggin’ live there.

               And I’m sorry did someone state that Meghan was invited but decided to stay at home and do pilates? It wasn’t her event and she didn’t need to be invited and I will use Kate’s reasoning for not wanting to go to just about anything where someone prettier will show up, “of course Meghan didn’t want to overshadow Kate and all her pregnancy glory.”

               Facts still rule the world and I will always use facts and logic when I make any type of statement. If you have either of those then please let me know and we can continue the decision otherwise ‘peace out’.

         2. Why didn’t Kate go to the staff party at Windsor Castle? Is she too arrogant and snobby to attend? Or maybe she wasn’t asked to attend, just like Meghan wasn’t for the memorial service.

            1. It seems that the staff party was a Harry/Meghan thing and the Queen asked them to host, although I am most likely wrong about that.

               Plus Harry and Meghan have an affinity for Windsor. I have never heard the same of William and his wife.

               And to be honest, I think The Duchess of Keen! might be too arrogant and snobby to attend like you said.

         3. Let’s focus on the people of the Grenfell disaster: those who lost their lives and the families left behind to build their lives from scratch, as if life wasn’t already hard enough. Many of these people are still in temporary accommodation. Many will be suffering PTSD.

            The representatives from the BRF showed up to a service, along with a host of other people. It matters not a jot what someone wore, or whether a newly-engaged woman attends. It’s about the people who were victims of Grenfell. Period.

         4. Meghan going to an official event dealing with something where Harry is there as a government/HM representative is quite silly. The idea of her even attending is bizarre. She is not officially a member of the RF. That’s how their rules are. She will not attend with Harry on official things like this til the wedding.

      3. If she is going to be a member of the family, is engaged to be married. Why wasn’t she invited? Is the taking attention away from the event excuse going to be used for work engagements in the future for her? Plenty of people were there, she could have been there as well. She could have sat behind the family if that’s the case but she can’t be the duchess of the UK when she doesn’t show up to important things that truly affect us.

         1. Meghan is not the queen, so 1) if the queen, who is the monarch, was not there Meghan is very low on the hierarchy so don’t matter whether she attended or didn’t. The most senior member (H&M couple) in the BRF prince Harry was there, he was invited and Meghan wasn’t, so take it as if Meghan was represented by prince Harry. But then again, Kate doesn’t who up on a lot of occasions and she is already your duchess and future queen, shouldn’t you start bashing from up? Bash the queen for not showing up at the Grenfell church service, then bash Kate for not attending a lot of those events where she clearly should have but called in sick or something.
            2) Shouldn’t you be blaming HM for inviting Harry and Meghan to Windsor castle and not Will and Kate? Hmm, isn’t your hostility very displaced?🏃🏃🏃🏃

         2. Emily, you are finding fault and not listening to anything anyone is saying. You just want to hate. We have all said the real reason Meghan was not there and you keep insisting it is due to lack of respect for the UK and its’ citizens. Give me a break. It’s like talking to a brick wall.

            You will do anything to find fault with Meghan. If she saved puppies and babies from a burning building, you would complain that she hadn’t put out the fire.

6. Eh, amazingly that DM commenter was right. Kate was invited to spend Christmas with the royals while engaged but she did not go as she wanted to spend it with her family and William was on shift at RAF Anglesey for Christmas and Boxing day ( SJ Palace said he volunteered so that the pilots that had families could be with their wives, kids). He wasn’t with the Queen that Christmas, nor were Zara and Mike, who spent a quiet Christmas with his family in Stratfordshire. Richard Palmer confirmed it in the Express today and the papers at the time ran the story ( here is Telegraph link from December 2010, with the Saint James palace confirmation that William was going to be away-http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/8219381/Prince-William-to-miss-seeing-Kate-Middleton-on-Christmas-Day-as-he-volunteers-for-RAF-duty.html ). If he had been there she certainly would have been with him; to have went without him would have been crazy.
   The whole breaking of rules was just something the tabloid stirred up to create a typical frenzy and future scandals. Since Harry is not away and her family is the US it makes all the sense for her to come and be with them.
   I’m sure no matter how everyone feels this Christmas they are all going to be all smiles. Kate will wear some new expensive McQueen outfit, Meghan and Harry will hold hands like there is no tomorrow, Sophie will have an amazing hat, the Queen will be in a super bright colour, William will make one of his “witty” comments, there will be people with flowers and well wishes, a puppy of some sort will make an appearance, the tabloids will try to pit the women against each other and will write tons of articles how one couple is loved up while the other is conservative, etc etc etc. Same old, same old. At this point I can only be excited about the clothes. It will get more interesting in the new year. Happy Holidays to you all!

   1. Thank you Amelia for clarifying the Kate invite query. I think the BRF is more modern than people are giving them credit for. From this article, it seems like the BRF spends ALL odd year christmases together but can choose where they want to be on EVEN year christmases.

      Herazeuuuuuuss, please where are you?? 🙂

      LOL at how you sum it all up, same ole same ole

      1. It’s one of those things that only the royal household know for sure because both stories were written at the time ie Kate wasn’t invited and or she was invited, but declined due to wanting to spend her last christmas as a single woman with her family.

         It was announced that William would be away anyhow, but that didn’t gain as much traction as the ‘Kate wishing to spend her last single lady christmas at her parent’s home’ story. Lots of PR op-ed articles about how horrid the royal christmas in comparison to the cozy, fun Middleton christmas that she would have to give up.

         1. I knew Herazeus would know the answer. I remember that she wasn’t invited, but also know that Herazeus and Amelia mention it, I do remember that it was said that the soon to be former Ms. Middleton wanted to spend her last Xmas with her family.

            TBH, the story about her spending her last Xmas with her family seems like a Middleton plate to save face.

         2. I do remember the pr pieces but her presence at Christmas was a non-issue once SJP announced that William would work (which was a great PR move). I don’t think it would have crossed anyone’s mind that she attend without him.
            IMO it’s also clear that, had William been there, she would have been there as well . And everyone came looking good out of the whole affair- she was once again the loving family girl, Wills the dutiful pilot, and the royals had a Christmas without a media storm. So again, I don’t think the Queen is breaking any “rules” here- the circumstances allow for H and M to be together so she’d have been very weird to deny them. The tabloids are IMO taking a swipe at Kate over this and while there are many reasons to criticise her, this one is just gratuitous and factually inaccurate; they are writing as if Will was there and she was cast away like some Disney villain. It’s “unhistorical” and it’s a dangerous narrative for Meghan as well- if you portray this as some great rule breaking event the next time the so called rules are followed they are going to say she is snubbed or the queen suddenly started hating her or Kate is gatekeeping. It’s just a dangerous path and the historian in me doesn’t want to see repeats of the mid 80’s.

            1. Amelia, I agree. I said way upthread that many are coming for Meghan’s blood over her “being allowed” to attend Xmas festivities as a fiancee while The Duchess of Keen! did not.

               It is a dangerous narrative for Meghan as well because there are many, many out there, including some royal reporters, if you want to be honest, who want to see Meghan fail.

               Many of the old guard, especially royal reporters, are livid at having to eat humble pie after saying Meghan was a fling and that Harry would not marry her. They had to backtrack and are not happy about it.

               And there are loons who say that Harry doesn’t like Meghan, that she is forcing Harry to marry her. I have rarely seen the type of hate Meghan gets directed toward anyone.

            2. Great PR move considering William often dumped shifts on his mates in the RAF to go on vacations. There were comments from co-workers but scrubbed from the internet, lol. They all pretty much hated his petty @$$.

               I cannot see William volunteering to work so people could go have holidays with their family, it’s all about him. He never considered their wishes when he’d not show up for shifts and run off on holiday with the Middletons!

      2. “A puppy of some sorts will make an appearance”. That made me laugh. You summed up the event nicely.

7. I Love Meghan and Harry

   1. Me too!

   2. Me three. I have such high hopes for the. Pray they don’t disappoint me. Xx

   3. Me four!

      And, I’m with you MrsBBV, I hope they don’t disappoint later. I hope they really do come out and work and try hard and are visible and don’t take a million vacations and Meghan doesn’t spend 250,000 pounds a year on a clothes budget. I hope they don’t use parenthood as an excuse to not work and I hope they take up lots of work for the older generation so they can enjoy some “retirement” time.

      …I also hope by this time next year Meghan is pregnant with twins and the twinsies end up having gorgeous brown skin and sweet ginger curls. Yay!

      1. I hope y’all are right. However, Harry hasn’t shown himself to be eager to work. He’s spent most of the past couple of years hanging with Meghan, slaughtering animals, taking vacays to exotic places, ‘working’ in exotic places (Botswana, Nepal), doing some fluff engagements and photo ops, barely showing up in the UK, and we are told he works a lot behind the scenes.

         How can this change when he’s showed us who he is, another gilded slacker like his bro, but with charm? He and M already plan to hit the Commonwealth ground running to spread the royal magic. The Commonwealth??? Sheesh. We don’t need ’em.

         1. I think it was Herazeus who recently wrote that William and Harry have married/will marry extensions of themselves. That has been borne out in the case of Kate, and remains to be seen whether Meghan will follow Harry’s habits thus far: exuding charm but selective work and not much of it, with lots of under-the-radar personal time. I’d expect an ongoing royal wardrobe to be assembled at significant cost.

            An alternative is that the couple shakes off Harry’s self-indulgent past and takes on a significant and demonstrable workload. How likely is that? Do leopards – if not slaughtered for fun – change their spots? H+M talk up their plans, how ‘passionate’ they are, but real, sustained action is something else altogether.

            They have mentioned doing work with kids around the Commonwealth. I don’t know what that entails, but I am tired of the BRF using Commonwealth countries (and OUR resources) as a playground for family members who drag their heels/are incapable of consistent work in their own country and need to be kept amused and pampered. All they present is a burden to others.

            You’re right, Maven: we don’t need ’em. The only magic Harry is capable of performing is his disappearing act whenever it suits.

      2. If the W&K first post-marriage trip is an indicator, H&M will be going to Canada shortly after their marriage. It fits neatly into their ‘visiting the Commonwealth’ narrative. I’m sure the PM will welcome a friend for a visit and the attention to the country. If H&M think about it, it should be split into two trips. Eastern half soon after the marriage then western half to take advantage of winter sports there a bit later. This trip shows off the new couple to a major commonwealth country and Meghan gets an appropriate wardrobe for it.

         It’s perception of their actions after the trip that can gild or tarnish their reputation as working royals. Even then, if beginning a family slows down their joint participation, it is an expected slow-down. It’s happened before with W&K. Harry can continue his previous pattern of work and all wil be fine for a while. More than anything, they need staff that will give them useful guidance and H&M will need to listen to that and act on it. IMO.

         1. W+K are in line for the throne, should the monarchy continue; H+M are not. I’m not sure they need to be ‘introduced’ to the Commonwealth given their secondary status (soon to be 6th in line) that will diminish as time passes.

            H+M will be judged on the work they actually do and the value they provide. They have already said they intend doing a 6-month tour of the UK to get to know a range of charities Harry is involved in now that Meghan has ‘boots on the ground’. They have said they want to work with kids and intimated the Commonwealth would be targeted: “lots to do” opined Harry. Those plans need to be rolled out: what they entail and how H+M intend to be of service. However, Harry is also on record as saying the modern monarchy will not do nearly as much as the older generation. But he has been inconsistent and largely indulged his own interests since leaving the army; hopefully, with Meghan at his side, he will step up considerably.

            Visiting lovely parts of Canada sounds like dressed up holidays. Not acceptable. That’s what W+K do and are pilloried for it. I can see that sending a foreign loved-up couple half way round the world might be considered a tactic to retard republican sentiments a little longer and keep a foreigner as HoS, but it’s a futile strategy long-term. They’d be better off shoring up the UK because that’s their meal ticket: if Scotland looks for independence courtesy of Brexit, the UK may dissolve. Could the monarchy in its current form exist with just England to support it? The burden might be too great.

8. This is a bit O/T, but I just watched the BRF enter the church for the Grenfell memorial service. Harry is walking ahead of William, his wife, Charles and Camilla. Isn’t that a huge protocol breach? If Meghan was there, would Harry still have done that? Would he and Meghan have been allowed to walk in first like that?

   1. From what Herazeus or someone else has said before, it’s “backwards” going into a church service (if I’m remembering correctly). Thus, the Queen, had she attended, would have entered lastly, after Charles and Camilla, who were after William and Kate, who were after Harry.

      1. Thanks! Why is is this way?

         1. I have no idea, unless it’s related to the fact that the Queen is the head of the Church of England. Rather like how the priest who will celebrate Mass is the last to enter for a Catholic service. But that’s only what I’m guessing–I very well could be wrong.

            1. Lizzie is correct.

               They process to their seats with the least important first and the most important last, much like the order of priests infront of them.

               They walk out of church in reverse order ie most important first and least important last.

               At Sandrigham they walk in groups according to order of importance, but it’s done in a more casual way so it doesn’t always jump out at people, and as it’s not as rigidly followed, occassionally the more important members drop back and walk with the lesser members.

            2. Thanks Hera, your knowledge is very much appreciated, God bless.

         2. @Leah —

            Re: “why is it this way?” Just my own opinion in addition to what others have said, but I think it’s because this is the order they were then going to sit. If you look at the pictures once they are seated, Harry is far down the row (to the left) and then is followed by Kate, Will, Cams, Charles. Assuming the most prominent person (Charles) sits on the aisle end, it makes sense that Harry would go in first so no one has to cross over each other or stand out in the aisle while the others file in. (Just a thought I had once I saw the pics of them seated.)

            Oops, I see once I posted that this is basically what Masamf said as well. 🙂

      2. @Lizzie and @Leah, and I think it makes sense since Harry was seated at the extreme left, then Kate, Will, Camilla and lastly Charles. It wouldn’t make sense for POW and DOC to be in front, sit first and them have Harry and the Cambridges pass by them and sit.

9. Is the royal rank. It’s the protocol: The righiest royals ranked enter last.

10. SO excited to see Meghan at Sandringham!! What a treat.

    And also great to hear Harry and Meghan co-hosted the staff event with the Queen. Seems significant IMO and also a great way to introduce Meghan to the whole royal household.

    In regards, to William, Kate: I think the brothers are still extremely close and both love each other dearly. I have no doubt William is welcoming Meghan because he loves his brother. I also think Kate is going to be perfectly nice. Whether that reflects her true feelings, who knows? Does it really matter? Kate has been described as uninterested in those not her family, but she seems able to be cordial which is really all that matters. I do not like all my in-laws but make an effort for my siblings. I think Kate and Meghan may surprise us and be fairly close. If a little competition creeps in here and there, I see no problem with that either. Frankly, in that family, the “married-ins” should stick together because the family isn’t known for its loyalty to those coming from outside.

    It sounds like Meghan has been busy. I never expected to see her a lot until after the NY. Btwn holidays, wedding stuff and immigration issues, December was going to be busy for her behind the scenes. I expect we will see her more in the NY.

    Also, Harry is nothing like Andrew. Both in what Harry has accomplished with his position and also in his temperment. Andrew has been a horrid individual pretty much since day 1 and is despised by staff. No one has ever disputed that. Harry is said to be beloved by staff (to the point that staff prefer to deal with him over William even) and generally a kind and warm person. The foreign office favors Harry for trips because he is so good at relationship building (which is on display when he goes on tours and by his rapport with leaders). Andrew’s popularity had largely fizzled out by Harry’s age and Harry is still extremely popular according to polls and how many people turn out to see him.

    Meghan, Harry, William and Kate hosted the KP staff party tonight. No pics of MH so far, but some pics of W/K coming out. They also apparently had dinner with Charles too.

    1. “. . . great to hear Harry and Meghan co-hosted the staff event with the Queen. Seems significant IMO and also a great way to introduce Meghan to the whole royal household.

       In regards, to William, Kate: I think the brothers are still extremely close and both love each other dearly. I have no doubt William is welcoming Meghan because he loves his brother. I also think Kate is going to be perfectly nice. Whether that reflects her true feelings, who knows? Does it really matter? Kate has been described as uninterested in those not her family, but she seems able to be cordial which is really all that matters. I do not like all my in-laws but make an effort for my siblings. I think Kate and Meghan may surprise us and be fairly close.”

       WisdomHeaven +1

       1. I do agree that Meghan and Harry co hosting that event is significant, suspiciously so.

          1. What is ‘suspicious’ about Harry and Meghan attending a staff Christmas party with The Queen, Prince Andrew, and the Dukes of Kent and Gloucester in the same rooms Harry and Meghan will hold their wedding reception in?

             1. I don’t mean “suspicious” as in bad. Beyond that. I’d rather not say. I’d rather be proven right in my assumptions in due time.

                Sorry posted this twice.

             2. I agree MMR, I think it is just 1. HM showing her support of them to the staff, 2. Introducing the wider staff to the new family member and 3. Because they are getting married there.

    2. Why is Andrew so horrid?

       I personally don’t think The Duchess of Keen! and Meghan will be close. Cordial, yes, but not close.
       I see Meghan teaming up more with Sophie and Camilla, although I would die if Anne took Meghan under her wing. Can you imagine?

       Speaking of Anne and Andrew, did they ever issue statements on Harry’s engagement? I know Anne is fond of Harry.

       1. By all accounts, Andrew is extremely rude to staff: demanding, condescending and downright cruel (used to throw things at people as a child and well into adulthood). In addition, he has a history of hanging out and defending pedophiles and was himself accused of sexual misconduct (and dear mummy gave him an award after these allegations came out!). As a “trade envoy” folks in the foreign office and those who he visited hated working with him.

          Etc. etc. etc. I have pretty much never read a positive word about Andrew except that he is a decent father to the girls and still devoted to Fergie. It says a lot to me about the Queen that he is her favorite child.

       2. I don’t mean “suspicious” as in bad. Beyond that. I’d rather not say. I’d rather be proven right in my assumptions in due time.

11. I also am highly interested and intrigued in the way Meghan is being eased into the BRF. It seems to be extremely quick and we are getting more behind the scenes info I think than we during William’s engagement period. Why is that, I wonder? And Meghan seems to be much busier behind the scenes and involved in things than the former Ms Middleton was during her betrothal period, unless I am mistaken. It’s very interesting how different things are this time around and I wonder why.

    1. Well, for one thing, William was still in the RAF and not a full time royal when Kate married him. Harry, however, has moved into full time duties since September so presumably Meghan will be a FT royal as well since she can’t fall back on the “Military wife” role Kate did.

       Also, different strokes for different folks? Kate is by all accounts incurious and rather dull. She has never been a hard worker or someone who takes much initiative. That is maybe changing since she supposedly spearheaded Heads Together, but she just doesn’t seem to be someone who wants to jump into anything. Meghan seems both eager to please and is very ambitious and has a history of hard work and hustle. Meghan has had to work hard to get where she was career wise and she tenanciously pursued opportunities and connections (IMO a great thing). She is someone who by all accounts is intelligent, diligent, curious and an adventurer and has been someone who has wanted to have a voice and make a difference since she was a child.

       None of that is who Kate is. So I think the pace is both due the different stages the brothers were/are in at marriage AND the individual personalities of their brides.

       1. Widsom, co sign.

    2. Because there is a sieve in KP. Guess who?

       1. If you are trying to insinuate Meghan, try again. There has literally been radio silence about her until this week. Considering this party had 900 people and Key still has some contacts with staff, its more likely that the staff did all the tipping.

          As for the Christmas announcement, that was done by BP and KP spokespeople.

          1. Yes, it was Meghan/Harry, and that Jason spokesman they have who is leaking all of these things to the tabloids no less.

             1. How do you know this? Do you have any proof as to who is doing what? Green doesn’t look good on you!!

             2. MASAMF, she knows nada. She is spewing BS. Typical Meghan hater, thinks Meghan is a golddigger, etc.

             3. Jason works for everyone at KP and primarily Will and Kate so if he is the leak then Will Kate and Harry are leaking as much as Meghan.

             4. You say this with such surety, Emily De Bonville. But I don’t think you know this to be absolute fact.

       2. Troll: A person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post.

12. Emily, Meghan does not tip off the press. Once again, your hatred of Meghan is noted and your accusations are once again moot.

    1. Leah – some interesting reading re Andrew.

       https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/10/jeffrey-epstein-decade-scandal-prince-andrew

       1. Thank you.

       2. Yikes @SPECTATOR, this article is heavy duty stuff!!!!!!! 🙂

          1. Heavy duty indeed MASAMF.

13. They announced the wedding date!!!

    1. Yeah and I don’t get why it’s on a Saturday. It just seems a downgrade for Meghan and Harry. The BRF don’t usually marry on weekends, at least not senior royals. Why not a weekday?

       1. I don’t think its a down grade at all. Harry has consistently shown how much his relationship has veered away from the normal BRF custom, and I think this is another sign for them saying this is gonna be a more different kind of relationship. They had already said their wedding day will not be a public holiday so i already figured its either gonna be a weekend or an already established holiday. And really, why nitpick this, just be happy for the couple. They had time to sit down with their family and discussed this and decided this was what was best for them and their wedding!! Im just gonna say best wishes for the happy couple, Im very happy for both and whatever they decide is well with my soul.

          1. I guess I wanted a bigger fuss. I love big royal weddings and hoopla. I hope this downsized wedding doesn’t mean that Meghan won’t wear a tiara. I’m already disappointed at no balcony kiss.

             1. @LEAH, we don’t know what the details are, Im guessing we should be prepped for a lot of surprises. Just sit tight and enjoy whatever they are generous enough and willing to share with their fans, the rest is not in our hands.

             2. One thing I would like to see is a royal man wearing a wedding ring. I would love it for PH to be the one in the BRF to wear a wedding band. There are so many new styles that would look fantastic on Harry.

             3. @G, and maybe he will (fingers crossed). The sun is reporting that bets have already started on what other customs Harry and Meghan will forgo. This might be one of them. I’d really love to see a ring on PH’s finger. And Im beginning to think that Sussex will not be their dukedom (Herazeus might get her wish), too much speculation on that. I have a strong hunch that HM will go in an entirely left field direction.
                OT but, does Kate wear her wedding band? I’ve seen the emerald(??) engagement ring but not her wedding band, does anyone know?

             4. MASAMF: “…does Kate wear her wedding band? I’ve seen the emerald(??) engagement ring but not her wedding band, does anyone know?”

                From news reports and photos there appear to be two bands that she wears: the Welsh gold band received during the wedding and an eternity ring she began to wear after George’s birth. Sometimes the sapphire engagement ring obscures one or both of the bands.

             5. G: all the royal men except for William wear wedding rings. Infact William didn’t have one made at all. Something about disliking jewellery. Philip eventually took his rings off when his fingers became too swollen.

                They wear their wedding rings behind their signet rings. Here are some pics to show you. If you look at the signet ring, you’ll notice an extra band behind it. That’s the wedding ring.

                Philip
                https://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5if01Z7z01r7b7kho1_500.jpg

                Charles
                http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03_01/PrinceCharlesPA_228x261.jpg

                Ps: when Diana died, Charles started wearing his Diana wedding ring again. He took it off when he became engaged to Camilla and wears a new ring from his marriage to Camilla.
                http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IdNNjx5HOvo/VgvPx6I4TiI/AAAAAAAAkp4/2u13nXGkvoA/s1600/Prince%2BCharles%2Band%2BDuchess%2Bof%2BCornwall.jpg

                Andrew
                https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/nintchdbpict000000841867.jpg?strip=all&w=960&quality=100

                Edward
                http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/09/article-2576792-1C06CB3800000578-321_634x843.jpg

                And for Masamf, Kate’s hand showing her rings. This is how she wears them. The ring of doom tends to overshadow the other rings.
                http://theduchessdiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Three-Rings-Holding-Charlotte-05082015.jpg

                https://whatkatewore.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Kates-Diamond-Eternity-Ring-6-Different-Shots-all-photogs-IDed-on-montage-collage-.jpg

                Gold band is her wedding ring, eternity ring was purchased after the birth of George.

             6. The whole “Royal men don’t wear wedding rings” is a lie cooked up by William’s people. Philip and Charles wear them. Andrew had one. Edward wears one. Usually the pinky finger, though, with the signet ring. William just refused.

                Cannot imagine Harry not wearing one.

             7. Thanks Graceh, Herazeus and Ellie re: ring pictures. Id love to see Harry carry on with this tradition, and if he has no signet fringe, then just wear your wedding band. Thanks again ladies.

    2. A Saturday, May 19.

       1. I also hope Sussex is not their dukedom. Hell, the way things are going, they might not get a Dukedom. I like Buckingham or Clarence or Suffolk as ducal titles. I also like Montagu. I would die laughing if Harry got Duke of Windsor.

          1. 1. Windsor is a non-starter because of the strong feelings against the first titleholder. There are still living Britons and world’s populations that remember the abdication and not in a good way. All the Nazis affliations still strongly associated with it.

             2. There is an Earl of Suffolk which rules out the Dukedom. Title has to be completely vacant in all it’s forms because otherwise the title can always be upgraded at any time, in this case back upto a dukedom. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Howard,_21st_Earl_of_Suffolk

             Please note that we no longer create hereditary titles especially dukes, but as the current Earl has an heir apparent and grandsons, the title will continue to be unavailable for some time.

             3. Montagu and Buckingham are not royal dukedoms. That’s not to say that HM can’t or won’t reclaim them, but they would be a considerable downgrade given their provenance.

             4. The currently available royal dukedoms are: Avondale, Clarence, Sussex, Windsor. Avondale is in Ireland which might be a non-starter, but it could always be used in combination as it was used the last time ie Clarence and Avondale.

             I generally don’t think HM has the imagination to revive other Dukedoms from the past unless Harry and Meghan make suggestions like Sophie and Edward did for Wessex.

             1. Oh wow, in that case, I’m hoping for Clarence then. I really liked the Sussex up until Hera mentioned the SusSex thing which completely turned me of or it.

             2. What about Connaught?

             3. What other dukedoms from the past could the Queen revive? And will Harry have Scottish, Welsh and Irish titles?

             4. I did some research and according to this:
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dukedoms_in_the_peerages_of_Britain_and_Ireland

                The dukedoms of Surrey, Exeter, Aumale, Bedford, Hereford, Cumberland, Albermarle, Monmouth, Newcastle upon Tyne, Kendal, Cleveland, Richmond, Southhampton, St. Albans, Berwick-Upon-Tweed, Leeds, Buckingham and Normanby and Montagu are available.

             5. Wait, I see there are already Dukes of St. Albans and Bedford.

             6. The press would have a great time digging up Harry‘s costume fail again. Windsor will be vacant at least another generation in my opinion.
                But then, I wouldn’t have thought they bring out the tiara and ring so closely connected with Diana for another 15 years (talking about PR), so who knows.

             7. @Leah, I don’t like the Cumberland, it’s too similar to Cambridge. But I really like the Avondale and Buckingham. Leeds and Berwick sound nice too. Oh well, whichever they decide, as long as it’s not Windsor or Sussex, I’m good.

             8. Leah: You have to look at provenance to determine likelihood of a recreation of the vacant dukedoms. The more prestigious the previous creations, the more likely for revival.

                As an example the previous Earls of Wessex were the most important person in the Kingdom after the King and in one case *was* the King in the Anglo-Saxon Kingdom of Wessex. It makes sense in terms of prestige for the Queen’s son to get this title.

                Further, there is a distinct circle of important dukedoms vs the rest. Dukedoms aren’t equal. The royals have a set reserved just for them. These are the royal dukedoms. They will never be re-created to anyone outside of the royal circle even if they become ordinary dukedoms like Kent and Gloucester are about to become in the next generation. Due to Kent and Gloucster’s current heirs not being HRH royal, their inheritance of those dukedoms will render them ordinary. Once there are no more heirs to those particular dukedoms, they will merge back to the crown to wait for the next royal claimant to re-create.

                There are afew issues with the list of vacant dukedoms that you’s picked out;

                1. Some of them are extant or suspended or exist in a different name. Extant means they exist in their lesser form and are currently held by someone living. If a dukedom is extant, the higher title can’t be granted to someone else.

                – Earl of Surrey,
                – Marquess of Exeter
                – Aumale is a duchy in Normandy aka France therefore a non-starter, however, it has an English equivalent extant title – Earl of Albermale.
                – Viscount Hereford
                – Earl of Albermale
                – Baron Southampton

                Suspended means that the title isn’t vacant though it is listed as such, but there are issues stemming from WW1 when they were forfeited under the titles deprivation act 1917 for siding with Germany over Britain. Title was removed from then titleholders, but current living descendant claimants can legally challenge to unsuspend and reclaim the title. Eg Cumberland. This is a royal dukedom whose current claimant is Prince Ernst of Hanover. The title was suspended due to his great grandfather siding with the Germans over Britain during WW1. As the title was vacated rather than merged into the crown, it left a loophole window for descendants to be able to legally challenge for it’s return. Thus it is suspended rather than vacant.

                That said, Cumberland ducal title is a very sore point with Scotland and all Scottish people. It was a Duke of Cumberland (nicknamed Butcher Cumberland) who was in charge of suppressing the Jacobite rebellion culminating in defeating the Scots at Culloden (1746) and clearing the Scottish Highlands. It was brutal ethnic cleansing to an ergregious degree that included banning all practise of Scottish clans, culture, dress and gealic language and if one objected was executed or exiled to the colonies.

                That ban stayed in place until late 18th century. The Scottish culture we see today is a revival driven by romantic notions of what Scotland is supposed to be because Butcher Cumberland was very effective at destroying Scottish culture. Butcher Cumberland is the reason we shall never see that dukedom revived in a UK that includes Scotland.

                Cleveland was created for illegitimate sons of Charles 2. A revival might bring up that rumour about Harry’s parentage which though it’s debunked, still holds.

                Others on your list have current title holders eg Bedford, Newcastle upon Tyne, Richmond, St Albans, Berwick upon Tweed.

                The rest fall in the category of ordinary dukedoms which are/ were increasingly re-created for service to the royals and will never be deemed important enough for a royal. They are generally given lesser status in the heirarchy of dukedoms eg Kendal, Monmouth, Montagu and Leeds.

                Duke of Normandy is a French title and duchy. Can’t revive this one unless we reconquer Normandy in France!😁.

                Finally, yes, Harry will receive a Scottish and Northern Irish title to go with his ducal title. That is the tradition. It’s been a long time since a royal was granted a welsh peerage. Not sure why. Earl of Snowdon is the most recent creation that i can think of.

                Finally, you are right about Connaught. Forgot about that. Definitely vacant and it’s a royal dukedom, but like Avondale, it is in Ireland. Not sure we can claim an Irish title in Britain. Might work if used in Combination like before though not Strathearn as William has that one.

             9. No, it’s not Normandy, it’s Normanby. Thanks for the heads up, Herazeus.

             10. OT. When looking through the lists of Dukedoms and Royal dukes I came across some interesting possibilities which you explained. Up until recently I never looked up PrPhilip’s other titles – Duke of Edinburgh was the title most often mentioned in news. Of course he has a title for Scotland (Edinburgh), Wales (Earl of Merioneth) and England (Baron Greenwich). Looking further I saw that the ‘Duke’ of Greenwich is held by The Duke of Argyll, so that wasn’t a possibility. But I wondered this OT question: will Earl of Wessex receive these other titles too if he is given DofEd upon Philip’s death? If not, what happens to them? Thanks.

             11. Sorry. Above question is for Herazeus.

       2. Since there is no public holiday attached to this wedding, people would be at work/ school if it were held on a weekday, leading to much more disruption to traffic flows etc. Saturday allows people to turn out in support, should they wish. William has missed the BAFTAs – of which he is patron – on a couple of occasions, so missing another event he patronises will be a familiar experience.

          1. ITA with you @Jen IRT wedding date and no holiday etc. And as I already said, I believe there was consultation with other senior members of the BRF (before a date was decided upon) and everyone agreed that this was the best option they chose in terms of wedding date.
             @Leah, HM would never give the duke of Windsor title to one of her very beloved grandsons and his bride, not when beloved grandson has married an American divorced woman of colour!! That would be viewed as the cruellest thing to do to Harry, given his relationship with his grandparents, his service to his country and everything else. I don’t expect anything like that.

          2. @masamf
             Oh, definitely NOT the Windsor title given its relatively recent history.
             Agreed, the wedding date would have been arrived at to suit all parties’ commitments, as far as possible.

    3. 🙂 Tweet from Richard Conway, BBC:
       “Decisions, decisions… Prince Harry wedding on May 19 clashes with FA Cup final… which one will FA President Prince William choose to attend??”

       It is the day of the Emirates FA Cup Final at Wembley Stadium. The security for both events on the same day will be challenging.

       1. And my feeling is that the intention of putting wedding on this particular day is to split the masses so Harry and Meghan get a more private wedding they have always wanted. Its a win for the both of them.
          And theres no way I can be convinced that William had no say in this decision, he will just send a representative to the FA cup final is my guess.

          1. Yep, people is reporting that Wills will send a rep to the FA cup.
             They’re also reporting that “KP confirmed that they were well aware of the FA cup event and H&M wedding date clash” so, interpret that however you wanna interpret it. 🙂 🙂

       2. I’m waiting for the tabloids to jump on the fact that the weekend of the 19-20 is also Kate’s sister’s first wedding anniversary. 😉

          1. They already connecting the wedding date to Anne Bolyne execution date, yikes!!! 😉

             1. Yeah and pointing ou that Henry VIII is buried in the main part of the chapel. And people are already saying, “Marry in May, rue the day.”

             2. Leah, none of the above scares me, Im not superstitious. Theres lots of broken marriages of people that married in other months of the year and there’re lots of very successful marriages of people that married in May.
                WRT Henry III being buried in that chapel, its a moot point. The Wessexes married in the same church 8 years ago and they’re still happily married. Its interesting that the Wessexes married in same church on June 19 and if Harry gets Sussex dukedom, the Sussexes will have married in same church on May 19th…Hhhmmm..

             3. In my country, May is a highly popular month to marry. And our divorce rates aren’t worse than in the rest of Europe. Those sayings don’t mean anything.
                Britain and the BRF have enough history that you could find something at any date available.

          2. At least H+M’s wedding will push a re-run of Pippa’s wedding/first anniversary off the social pages. Let’s be grateful for that. You just know such a ‘reminder’ was probably being planned by the Middleton’s.

             1. Jen, truer words never spoken.

             2. Edward and Sophie married in 1999, not eight years ago.

             3. @Leah my bad, that was a miscalculation. Well then, that’s 18 years ago and still counting and going strong!!

14. And why the same day as the FA Cup Final?

    1. Somebody wasn’t paying attention to other events in the country on the same day? I read that the original guess of May 26, also a Saturday, would have coincided with a bank holiday for that weekend period. It was the reason for guessing that day. What else would be going on at Windsor on the weekend of the 26th?

       1. @Graceh, Nope, I don’t think this was a coincidence or any lack of attention to detail, these folks know what they’re doing. This date was the INTENDED (caps for emphasis) date right from the beginning.

       2. Sorry, but planning your wedding around a sports game is just tacky (if it is not your job). Then someone can not watch the game- is that really a problem? Should they consider sport events when planning a funeral too?
          I don’t get the point? It is not as if the event would have brought Wiliam any praise here as it is not a charity engagement.
          The wedding television (if there is one) will not clash with the event so the public can enjoy both.

15. Yeah, MASAMF, I think that this was done to take attention off the wedding. I have no idea why Harry wants it this way. He is not a private citizen and the more hoopla, the more goodwill for the BRF.

    Is there something happening in the UK on May 26?

    MASAMF, you think William was consulted re the wedding date?

    1. @Leah, I’m willing to bet my last dollar that Wills and all the other senior royal members were consulted. My guess is this is a collective decision rather than one made by Harry and Megs alone. Harry is already aware of what mistakes his brother made in 2011 and I’m sure he is more than willing to learn from them and not repeat them. My money is on him consulting with HM, his father, DoC, his brother, and his bride-to-be, and of course their friends.

    2. The only events I can find in past years near the last weekend in May are a BP Garden Party and the Chelsea Flower show (4 days in a row).

    3. Reports that Windsor Castle and St George’s Chapel will be closed and unavailable to the public on 18 & 19 May. Not posted yet on St George’s Chapel web site.

16. Agree with the others that Meghan Markle will be judged much more harshly than other members of the Royal Family because she is an American, lower middle class, and then as a woman (which is depressingly normal). Her being partially African American will have little impact IMO because in Britain isn’t the racists cesspool that America is.

    Her breach of protocals will be interpreted as “just a Yankee that doesn’t understand British society”; “she has no respect for our customs!”, and then accusations of being low class when she is seen shopping at Target, and then of course, we all judge her as a woman for wardrobe mistakes, make up mistakes, parenting mistakes, not being deferential enough to Harry, etc.

    I”ve gone on the record and said that this pairing won’t last. But at this point, my pity (and empathy) is directed towards her.

    1. I think the press will look for anything to whip up sales; that’s all they care about. The only thing Meghan should do is be herself. Mistakes are bound to happen; best to shake off such moments and learn from them. Her biggest problem, as I see it, is being burdened with the unrealistic expectations from a number of people for their own reasons.

       However, Meghan comes from a comfortable middle-class background, attending private schools and a private, prestigious university. I doubt she shops at Target! Her tastes are high-end and expensive, she travels extensively, enjoys exclusive clubs and is socially well-connected.

       1. Considering the Daily Mail had an article referencing her ancestors as “cotton slaves” I’d say Britain has plenty of racial issues to deal with.

          1. ITA @Gatita. When it comes to racism, claiming that American are more racist than the British is such a stretch!! the idea that “Britain is not such the racism cesspool that the US is” is just absurd!

          2. There is plenty of racism in the UK, it just may not be as overt as in the US.

          3. I totally agree with your comment, Gatita.

17. Meghan did not grow up lower middle class. She went to one of the best schools in LA. I would say she was upper middle class. Her father held a very good job and got an Emmy.

    And there is Target in the UK?

    1. Yeah, I’m not buying the “from rags to riches” BS. Meghan’s parents, especially her father, were not poor. Her mother might have been not as wealthy but certainly her father had the money, and he together with the mother made a decision to give Meghan the best there was in the world. If Meghan was from lower middle class, she would have gone to public schools but she went to private schools from the age of 5. That is not lower middle class!!

18. And living in LA, I can tell you that indeed that high school Meghan attended was top notch. And that kindergarten she went to is no slouch, either.

    1. Well then, there you go!! This gal would and will not shop Target, especially now that she’s been a suits actress for this long, been a UN and WV ambassadors for this long, with the top tier connections she already had before she even met Harry and now that she is marrying into the BRF!

       1. Jennifer Aniston, Beyonce, Rihanna, Michelle Obama, etc all shop at Target. Nothing wrong with that store; it’s fun for miscellaneous items.

          1. Yeah, I’m not understanding the Target swipes.

             1. I personally love Target and if its good enough for Michelle Obama its good enough for me lol

                Call me low class I suppose.

          2. Target in US might have some good stuff but here in Canada, all their stuff is crap TBH. But I’ve seen a interview where Meghan said the dress in one of her pictures was a forever 21 and it cost her just 20 bucks so, I guess she’ll shop wherever she wants t shop.

             1. Aww yes, I have heard that Target in Canada is disorganized and understocked. Not sure why.

19. I’m not surprised with a Saturday wedding at St. George’s Chapel…after all…

    Prince Edward & Sophie: June 19, 1999 (Saturday)

    Peter Philips & Autumn: May 17, 2008 (Saturday)

20. Yeah, but I don’t think there was strong media interest in Peter or Sophie’s weddings and they are not senior royals.

21. The blog Royal Central has pointed out that 19 May is also the day that Anne Boleyn lost her head. *eyeroll*

    Sorry – didn’t refresh & see the posts upthread. Shouldn’t work & post at the same time.

22. Let us all come together and send vibes to the universe that Meghan will not choose an Erdem schmatta for her wedding gown. Also, will be interesting to see if a coat of arms is designed for her, like the Middletons had. Maybe Meghan’s will incorporate a silver briefcase from her Deal or No Deal Days.

    1. Why would she carry a deal or no deal briefcase, geez!! (RME) Of all the purses and clutches she ever used, the briefcase is the most significant to incorporate?

       1. The briefcase comment is meant to be a smear on Meghan.

          1. It is a joke folks, give me a little credit for some Friday afternoon levity.
             This is a Meghan Markle blog not the New England Journal of Medicine!

             1. I laughed. I also appreciated the joke’s crafty shade at the Middletons.

             2. BostonB everybody knows it’s supposed to include an angel silhouette (for LA), crossed film strips (with sprocket holes) to show paternal accomplishment and a banana disguised as a leaf for … tweets. 😉

             3. BostonBrahmin, I apologize, your joke was lost on me, my bad.

             4. I got the joke, but also like the film with sprockets, and bananas. Add in the dogs and a roast chicken too.

23. I doubt it about the silver briefcase and also it wouldn’t be appropriate.

    I read somewhere that a coat of arms is most unlikely. Her parents would have to request one, I believe and Meghan’s parents are not as grasping and insecure as those godawful Middlings.

    1. I think a family coat of arms is somewhat standard for married in royals; Crown Princess Mary’s family got one.

       1. There may be a problem with Meghan’s family getting a coat of arms because Meghan’s family is American. I’m not entirely sure about that. But if I remember correctly Meghan could apply for a coat of arms herself, rather than having her father do it.

    2. The parents don’t have to have one though the Middleton acquired one. Rumour has it that Mike enquired after one as early as 2008 -ish, possibly earlier.

       MM will have a coat of arms given to her. I’m excited to see what she picks as her personal emblem.

       It makes me laugh that the Middleton coat of arms includes an ode to skiing (the white chevrons), but I do think it’s sweet that they took up acorns to signify their kids.

       The acorn motif was picked up in Kate’s wedding earrings.

       1. I thought the acorns were a reference to the Avenue of Oaks at Chapel Row (Bucklebury) near their home in Berkshire. 1 row commemorates smth to do with QEI and the other row Waterloo. (wth did I remember that *shakes head*)

          1. GraceH: that explanation came later, years later. PR explanation to erase superficial original explanation given out during the wedding and early years.

             I like the original explantion better because it’s charming. Second explanation pretends they gave it more consideration than the first.

24. I am not sure why people are reading so much into a wedding date? I mean pick any date and some significant historical event will have happened (to those referring to Anne Boleyn) and frankly, there are few summer weekends that there are not national or BRF related events going on. So May 19th it is. The wedding is likely to be in the morning, so plenty of time for people who are interested to tune in and then turn to the FA Finals later in the evening (I am assuming they are in the evening).

    I am also not reading this as them trying to keep the wedding more or less private. I think this is simply the date that works best for the royal households, for their respective families and for the government—all of whom would have been involved in this decision.

    Since there will be no bank holiday, having it on a weekend means that more folks can actually watch.

    I stay mad about no WA but that was clearly not where they wanted it.

    1. I think no WA because people didn’t want to pay for the expenses of another huge wedding. It would look terrible considering all of the spending discussions on the fixing up of BP as HM has let it slide for so long, and indeed gave money earmarked for BP to William for Anmer and KP.

       1. Ellie, I’m not sure Brits are wise to the fact that the Queen moved BH repair/maintenance money to family over the years. The reason given for £360m needed for repairs was fudged as the Queen being given poor advice. There would have been a huge stink had people known that earmarked money for decades had gone to family, therefore making the public pay twice for the same repairs.

          As for the wedding, it’s hard to justify something huge and costly when yesterday’s Guardian headline stated that nurses, drivers, and council workers – those with stable jobs – have joined the ranks of the homeless as private landlords seek higher rents. Homelessness in the UK has increased each year for the last six years. Since the BRF has said it is paying for the wedding, many will assume this also includes security which will run to millions. But of course, that’s not the case at all.

    2. Wisdom H: “I am not sure why people are reading so much into a wedding date? …pick any date and some significant historical event will have happened…”

       You know, those things are brain farts. Date stuck in the head about something happening near or on that date, it get dislodged from its storage place – and so it goes. Something to keep the brain occupied other than what you’re supposed to be thinking about. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

25. Wisdom, I too am miffed about no Westminster abbey

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